The case of relocation

I alluded yesterday to the debate raging at Occupy Otautahi over whether or not the camp should move. This is a fucking huge deal to us. Some people are ready to leave if it doesn’t go through (not the movement itself, just go to other occupations, and it’s not just over the location, it’s more about the decision to move as a symbol of what we’re doing) while others are quite firmly opposed. Hopefully there’ll be a decision tonight, but I don’t know. I’m going to try and represent both sides of the argument here just so people know what’s going on.

The Hagley Ave site (where we are now) has several problems. There aren’t toilets close by that we can really use. Senior management at the hospital has told us to cease using hospital toilets, flat out. The portaloos from the bus exchange are gone. Any public toilets are a fair walk away. (Pops today told TC that she could walk to the one in the carpark in two minutes easily. I looked at the distance and went “uh….” Things you have to think about when your legs don’t work properly all the time.) There is a tap where we can get water, but we’re not sure whether we’re actually supposed to use it, and that’s also a bit of a walk.
Deans Ave has fully public toilets right there, as well as a fully public water supply right there.

Foot Traffic
Now that the bus exchange is gone from Hagley Ave, the traffic is joggers, dog walkers and nurses, mostly. Most of these people come past on a regular basis.
At Deans Ave, you have a) one of the busiest intersections in the city. b) A lot of foot traffic. c) Several bus lines heading from town to the west side. d) Sports fields nearby that are used regularly.

Nearness to Other Sites
Hagley Ave is closer to the central city. Unfortunately there isn’t much in the central city. Cashel Mall can be busy, but that’s only a very small area.
Deans Ave is near Riccarton and Addington, which are becoming among the biggest shopping and business hubs in Christchurch, respectively.

There is an argument that Hagley is safer for children. Deans Ave is diagonally opposite the Running Bull, so there’ll be drunk people on Thurs-Sat nights. However we already get drunk people (last night we had to call the police about a couple of guys, though luckily we managed to deal with the situation without them having to actually come out), and there is three police units actually stationed by the Running Bull on busy nights whose job it is to deal with drunk and disorderly in the immediate vicinity.

Media Backlash
Some people feel that moving would open us up to criticisms of being unstable and indecisive. This is very easily resolved by issuing a press release the day of the move, if we decide to do so, explaining our reasoning for moving and pointing out that Hagley Ave was never supposed to be a permanent location. We could even explicitly link this to the changing shape of the city itself – the bus station moved on to bigger and better things and now we are too. Further, we already get media backlash, and a lot of the backlash is specifically criticising us for being too comfortable and just hanging out. Which brings me to,

The increased traffic means that Deans Ave is potentially noisier, and one of our homeless members said that the wind coming down Riccarton Road would be a problem. Beyond that, though, there’s the fact that we’re simply settled at Hagley, the space is a really nice positive one that everyone enjoys and we can have a good community focus there.
The rebuttal to this is that we can settle at Deans Ave too, that nothing at Hagley can’t be recreated there. The other rebuttal is that we’re not actually there to be comfortable and have a commune. If we wanted comfort we could just stay at home and go on protests during the day or whatever. This doesn’t necessarily mean we have to be uncomfortable, but comfort shouldn’t be a compelling argument in this. (TC mentioned today something that also bothers me – while we’re having this argument, Occupy Melbourne is in Federal Court challenging the City over the violent evictions, Occupy Sydney had a ton of riot police turn up to arrest ten people in an abandoned building, people in America and the UK are getting shot with rubber bullets, having tear gas canisters thrown at them, somewhere around a thousand people have been arrested in the US and it’s winter there. TC is American, so it’s even bigger for her because that’s her own people.) We’ve had a lot of comments about people giving us respect for being out in the weather and sticking it out. The day after we nearly got flooded out, people’s response was this sort of awe that we were still there, and because it was fairly early on there was this realisation that hey, we were actually freaking serious about this!

This plays into the previous point a bit too. The number of people at camp is a constant topic of discussion. People who are pro-Deans argue we can get more attention there, and thus more people. People who are pro-Hagley argue that if it’s less comfortable at Deans everyone will leave and no one will join for long. People who are pro-Deans argue that it won’t be that bad and people who really believe in it will stay anyway. (See: America, Australia, etc.) It goes on.
My contribution last night was that we’re already losing people. We are at risk of dying off. If that happens, I would far rather die off after having moved to Deans Ave to try to counteract that than die off at Hagley Ave after having shot the idea down. That got quite a lot of agreement from other pro-Deans people. (lol face it, I’m not unbiased here – I am very much all for moving.)

This is really the crux of the issue. We have two groups of people, basically, with two different ideas about what our direction should be. One group thinks that we are inherently a protest and we should be getting in people’s faces. They tend to be pro-Deans. The other group is in favour of a more gentle approach, leading by example, setting up something sustainable to show it can be done. They tend to be pro-Hagley. Honestly I can see both sides here and both ideas are important. I just think that we need a protest more urgently.

There’s a lot of other issues that really get all wrapped up in this, like the consensus system we work within itself. Many other places have adopted a 75% consensus rule. We don’t have one. The only real rule we have is a 10 person quorum. Beyond that the idea seems to be that everyone has to decide and that’s just unrealistic when you get into bigger groups, let alone huge groups. As I said today, we live in a world with John Banks in it, and he’s never going to let us get 100% consensus. (We’d been talking about him shortly before this.) So I have no idea how much support we need to have to pass the motion, let alone how much support we have right now. I have to do the dishes tonight so I’m not sure whether I’m going to go back for the GA – I’m sort of tired of rehashing the same points over and over, which bothers me more than the wind chill.

The other underlying issue is the motivation. At the moment almost all our time is taken up with just keeping the camp going. We have to move the tents at least twice a week, and half the tents don’t even have people sleeping in them. If we moved apparently we wouldn’t have to do that – I haven’t been there very recently to look at the exact layout, I just sort of know the area and trust the reporting of those who went to check it out in the rain the other day – an important step because we need to know the drainage situation so we don’t get flooded. As I said to begin with, the move has become a symbol of us actually doing something. If the people who have expressed they will likely leave do leave, it won’t be because we didn’t move the camp, it will be because we are spending most of our time camping instead of protesting, and as several people have said, they can do that on their computers. You know, like I am, while also going to the camp. It’s particularly tense because the people who are really stepping up to do things are often those who are deeply committed because they were already activists. They have the experience, they have the knowledge, they have the connections, but because they’re trying to keep things running they’re not getting the chance to use any of it.

Someone (I think TC again – sorry, I was having a long discussion with her and Rob and she said a lot of stuff) said that in Dunedin, there’s no leader so if someone has an idea they do it. I nodded and added that in Christchurch, there’s no leader so if someone has an idea we all have to agree on it. A lot of things simply don’t get done after we have agreed. I suspect they’re partly getting diluted or blunted – you lose urgency and possessiveness of an idea when you have to talk it out, and then people start getting the impression that someone else will deal with it. In reality they won’t. It becomes yet another thing that’s in the background, that [the group as a whole] needs to do [sometime], along with all these other things that [the group as a whole] needs to do [sometime] which includes both other protest-related things and other camping-related things like doing the dishes.

Sadly, if Christchurch can’t get past this and fails, that’s a big score for the people who don’t want us to succeed. I can see this happening so clearly but it’s hard to fix it. I have to know how to do it, and be able to do it, and this is while I’m going through my own shit – these last few months I have made fucking huge strides in improving my basic state of existence. I am able to go out and talk to strangers and give opinions. I have a job. I have an occupation. I have a blog. My life is determined by what I need to do instead of what I won’t hate doing to fill in the time while I hate myself to death. Right now I don’t quite have the space to be proud of that because I’m so invested in Occupy, and that’s not a bad thing, it’s great, it’s pretty amazing actually, but it means I cannot really be the person who stands up and saves the whole thing, as much as I want to.

Day 27 – warnings from the past

A comment was made tonight about how, very early on, we had two Spanish guys who came through camp. When they’d left Spain the protests they’d been at were hitting about the three/four week mark, and were flagging. They told us that this was natural and you have to push through it.

We’re seeing that now. It’s been nearly four weeks and there are tensions – I won’t list them because anything I said would necessarily be a shallow analysis and I don’t want people getting an inaccurate reading of the situation but a lot of it was reflected pretty well in the debates today over moving our camp. I’ll be doing a post on that debate tomorrow, because there’s just too much to go through to do it tonight. I’ve been up since 6.30am and it’s now 11.30pm!

Self-motivation is something that’s getting harder though – we’ll have an idea but it won’t eventuate. It’s something I’m going to be keeping in mind and really pushing myself to do the things that need to be done. My problem is that I’ll be at work, or at flax, or at camp, for most of my time, and then I have things I need to do on the internet for the occupation, and then I’m running out of time for my own stuff and so my relaxation pushes in front of other things and they don’t happen promptly. Even just keeping up with my email, my RSS feeds and Twitter can take a fair amount of time because of my style of internet browsing where I will click links and read them and click on other links. I like to read things and learn things. It’s great in some ways, but terrible in others. I have, though, been getting more organised recently in various ways, so hopefully I’ll be able to keep that going and improve further.

At any rate I think camp is at a point where enough people are getting frustrated that we have to start doing things. I was pondering last night the issue with our style of democracy where the initial “that’s awesome let’s do it!” rush is squashed a little bit while we talk about things and whether they’re a good idea, but we’re now looking at a situation where that energy is replaced by frustration energy, and if we’re good and lucky and determined we can use that long enough to build up some momentum again so the enthusiasm energy can return.

Things you can do: We have a lot of supporters who can’t really come and camp or spend huge amounts of time there. That’s okay. But if you can, keep an eye on the Events page of the official website and come to things! Every Sunday we do a free market and picnic and things, so keep in mind that that’s on and come visit. If you have anything to bring us, that’s awesome. Things we don’t need get passed on to people who do need them. Today someone brought us a big box of bread and said he wanted it to be anonymous, so maybe he’s from a bakery or maybe he just doesn’t want props, I don’t know, but that was super because bread and milk are things we do go through. Talk to other people about it too – with the loss of the bus exchange there, we’re mostly only getting the same people who regularly walk or jog or switch buses or go to work at the hospital or whatever. We need to make sure word is getting out there. If you see articles about Occupy in the paper you could bring them down to us too so we can see what the media’s saying or put them up on a board, things like that. Just, you know, anything like that, even tiny displays of support help keep morale up, and that’s going to be important for the next wee bit.

Tomorrow: I will be posting a fairly detailed summary of the debate on moving. For reference, the proposal is that we relocate the camp to the corner of Riccarton Road and Deans Ave, with the note that our current location was never meant to be permanent and it only won out over Riccarton/Deans because of the bus station, which is now gone. Obviously it’s a big discussion with a lot of angles.

Bad press

A couple of days ago, a guy turned up at camp with a reporter’s notepad. He introduced himself as a reporter from the Mainland Press, a local free newspaper, wanting to write a story about us. Of course anyone asking questions we’re always going to answer so this wasn’t a problem, and he spoke briefly to Ted and then did an interview with a friend of mine, Rob, which I was present for – he got a photo with Rob, Regan and I and I handed him one of my minicards as an easy way of him getting my name, which has my contact information on it as well. (At least, website/twitter/email – I’m leery of giving out my mobile number so if I want someone to have it I’ll just write it on the card or give it to them directly.)

Yesterday the article was published, on page 4 of the Wednesday November 9 copy of the Mainland Press. Rob brought a copy in today for us to see – this was where we discovered that Chris Tobin, the “reporter”, was actually the editor (not a huge deal but interesting that he didn’t identify himself as the editor).

There is not an online copy of the article – Rob looked – but it was fairly negative, describing us as resembling a gypsy camp*, “almost domesticated”, vague at best and ultimately doomed to fail. We would normally just laugh this off, but he also severely misquoted Rob, getting his words wrong five or six times. The most egregious error was in the line “I come from a poor family.” What Rob said was, in full, “I don’t come from a wealthy family. I don’t come from a poor family.” The quote continued with a comment about how he would get the latest game three months after it came out and other kids would hassle him, and how he didn’t want that for his kid – it was a comment on how central money is to our society, rather than what many consider to be better values like community spirit, honesty, generosity, willingness to work, etc. The paragraph as printed made it sound like Rob thought being poor was able to be represented by something pretty shallow.

Rob’s parents are right-wing Christians who believe that if it’s in the mainstream media, it’s right. They saw this article, particularly the comment about coming from a poor family, and didn’t react well. Rob now has two weeks to move out.

A simple transcription error, maybe, but it’s a sentence that you really want to double-check you have right. And as further evidence that Mr Tobin’s notes were perhaps not the most complete, right before this – the opener for the paragraph, in fact – he says that “Rob replied with something along the line that” (direct quote). Excuse me? He was taking notes, why does he need to quantify this with “something along the line”? Shouldn’t he know exactly what he wrote down? And if he wasn’t sure, why didn’t he try to get in touch with anyone? (Remember, he had my online contact info, and as editor of the Mainland Press he must have internet access as the newspaper has its own site and he has his own email address.) So, needless to say, not entirely impressed.

* re “gypsy camp”: this is not language I would normally approve of anyway because it’s generally used to refer to a romanticised view of a way of life that has been historically attacked, and particularly importantly these people still exist and are forced to live in often appalling conditions because they are treated fucking horribly. They’re a group that it seems it is completely ok to hate in Europe, countries that we would usually consider fairly civilised are in current times trying to have them deported solely because of their ethnicity even when they’re long-term residents whose children don’t know anything else. Our camp, currently, is probably a hell of a lot better than the conditions a lot of gypsies have to deal with, and it bugs the shit out of me that this is something so incredibly overlooked that there are people who don’t even realise that gypsies are real. /rant

Police action in Otautahi

So we had a little bit of excitement around lunchtime.

There’s this guy who’s really pissed off about people protesting the status quo, or something. Apparently he’s been driving past every day or something, but today he came down on one of those long skateboards with this big stick thing that’s used to push them along (like a puntsman’s oar) and started using the stick to rip down our signs and flags. A couple of people were like, “Dude, wtf are you doing?”, at which point he started getting in their faces and waving the stick threateningly. Ash saw this and ran over and just grabbed hold of the stick so he couldn’t hit anyone with it, and the guy responded by… calling the police saying Ash was assaulting him.

So the police turn up within a very few minutes. Pops has a camera out and is filming as the police, Ash, the guy and a couple of other people talk, and the guy asks one of the cops if Pops is allowed to do that. The cop says, well, yes, he is (legal note: if someone says they don’t want to be filmed then what you do with the footage is restricted, but in a public place you can always film, and you can always film police on duty), and the guy turns around and tries to rip the camera out of Pops’ hands.

Which actually is assault (whereas Ash was using restraint to protect others, completely legal, as he wasn’t actually striking or threatening to strike the man, just preventing him from hurting anyone). So they arrested him. Then they told us that if anyone else comes along and starts messing with our signs to call them and they’ll deal with it.

Pops said that he didn’t really care about what the guy did, he really wasn’t interested in laying charges or anything, so presumably not much will actually happen to him, but it was pretty fucking sweet watching him get put in the back of one of the three cars that turned up with his hands cuffed behind his back.

And that was just the start of the day! While that was going on we were having a legal workshop, later on we discussed community initiatives, someone got out du-kit (which is like fimo, modeling clay) and we had fun with that making badges and penguins and stuff, then in the evening two of the guys turned up with our completed bike power! A few people had goes peddling it just for the sheer novelty factor and we charged some mobile phones and the laptop and things. We had a guy down from Wellington who’s heading to Dunedin tomorrow so we also got out a bit of cardboard and made a message for them with everyone just scribbling whatever. Then I realised it was twenty past six and went to catch my bus, which was delayed for a little while at the bus exchange when the police turned up to take someone off. Not sure why, but it definitely made today more police than I’ve seen in the entire last three weeks of occupying.

(PS: Day 23!)

And the kitchen sink

Today being day 21, tomorrow morning marks three weeks since Occupy set up in Hagley Park. I had work in the morning so by the time I got out the brief rain was well and truly over and the rest of the day was gorgeous (if a little windy).

Someone kindly(? I think it was a joke) donated us a sink, and today we set it up in a proper bench so we can have a real kitchen! We also have a sturdier gazebo that won’t break in many places in a strong wind, and seriously, the camp is looking amazing. It was a good day for the kindness of strangers, too – as Chef was fretting over what to cook for dinner, being as all the vegetables we have left are potatoes, cabbage and onion, a woman turned up with one of those big boxes bananas come in full of leftovers from the bakery she works at, Marcell’s Picnic Cafe. It’s at 78 Hawdon Street, Sydenham, a couple blocks south of Moorhouse Ave. Huge shout-out and props to them, it was totally awesome to bring it down for us, and their cheese scones are fantastic. Shortly after that a guy who’s been around the camp a bit recently turned up with twenty bucks worth of hot chips, so we had some real good kai spirit itself over to us. (But, hey, if anyone has some vegetables going spare, we’d love them!)

This weekend is full of activities so please come and join us. Details are on the official Occupy Otautahi website – I have more errands to run in the morning so I’ll be in and out during the Parihaka commemoration but hopefully back in time to join the picket of the ANZCO offices in support of the dozens of CMP workers locked out of their factory because they’re refusing to take a paycut of 30% (that their managers, of course, are in no danger of!). After that will be kai, korero, a movie and some fireworks to round off the day, and on Sunday we’re doing a – hopefully regular now – picnic, free market and live music.


I haven’t gotten any good pictures of the camp in a few days so I made sure to rectify that today. Fifteen photos of what’s going on there – we’re looking really good now. Well, obviously the patches of faded grass aren’t the prettiest, but the fact that you can see them is actually a good thing, because it shows we are still being diligent about moving the tents. I’m not sure how many we moved before I got there, but I helped move all the moe tents from the grass verge between the running path and the footpath around to the northern tree-line, before the open field starts. The kitchen area has a dedicated cleaning area now and the benches are a lot clearer, with a bread box and baskets to make sure everything has a place and proper thermos pots so hot water will actually stay hot and we use less gas.

We also had at least four or five new people at the evening GA.

Obviously Dunedin was a big topic of conversation and we set up all our equipment to get a livestream showing on the projector, with a white sheet used as the screen. Unfortunately I left after the GA and by the time I got home it looked like the livestream wasn’t running – there’d been a couple of tweets about the webcam going fuzzy or blurry at about twenty to nine, so I’m not sure exactly what happened and will have to keep a sharp eye on both twitter and more mainstream news sources.

In events news – on Saturday night we’ll have the projector running again for a viewing of V For Vendetta. On Sunday it sounds like we’re running the free market again, and on next Thursday it’s 11/11/11 and we’re supporting a worldwide event at 11:11 in the morning which is a sort of “occupy wherever” – basically, at 11:11, stop what you’re doing and stand still. The idea is to do it for an hour but it’s obviously personal choice in how long you do it for (or whether you do it at all :P) since if you’re at school or work that’s going to get prickly! It’s basically an acknowledgement that not everyone can actually go to an official camp, that everyone has their own priorities, and sometimes all you can do is occupy exactly where you already are, even if only for a few minutes. I know this is going to be posted on our Facebook, and it should be at least mentioned in the minutes for tonight’s GA when they’re posted on the General Assembly page since we passed a motion that it would be endorsed by us.

In other news I snapped a few pictures of the flax putiputi I’ve done recently so at some point I’ll get around to putting together the craft section of the site so I can show off. Like a BOSS.

Workshop: Community Resilience

Yesterday during the picnic in the park/free market, a man named Jarrod whose surname I can’t remember held a workshop on community resilience, as defined as the ability to recover quickly from a setback, something he argues Christchurch has demonstrably not been in possession of.

The idea he introduced was that resilience has four elements – equity, social capital, information & transparency, and competence. We were assigned to discuss, in groups of four, each of these elements and how they applied to the occupation camp, either in things we did well or things that could be improved, as well as in general. The ways each of these were explained was:

Equity – two people putting in a similar value of work should receive a similar value of reward. It doesn’t mean that everyone gets an equal ‘payment’, rather that the situation we have where CEOs earn as much as 400 times what entry level staff do is done away with, particularly when the business under the CEO’s direction is losing money! Obviously a CEO job does require more skill than entry level work, but any claim that it requires 400 times as much skill should rightfully be pooh poohed.

Social capital – money is not the only, or even necessarily the best, way to value things. Social capital is to do with the connections between people and/or social networks, which are often difficult to measure but lead to greater quality outputs.

Information and transparency – this is pretty much self-explanatory; the idea that information should be shared/shareable rather than secrecy as status quo, which can lead to a breakdown in the system if the only person with a particular piece of important information is incapacitated somehow.

Competence – the varying skillsets that people in a community have.

These all tie in together in a multitude of ways, but when you have all of them you have a community that is flexible and adaptable, where everyone can contribute in some way so that anything that needs doing is able to get done in some fashion.

Underpinning all of this, thought, is one vital ingredient: trust. When things go to shit-custard, a resilient community is one where the members can trust each other to do what’s needed. If that’s not there, it doesn’t matter if you have all that other stuff, because all that productiveness and efficiency is replaced by paranoia, second-guessing and conspiracy theories. It’s easy to see how this played out in Christchurch. Very few people I know trust CERA (perceived incompetence, lack of information/transparency). Many don’t trust the government itself (ditto). A lot of those on the west side think those in the east are lazy and greedy (perceived lack of social capital) and trying to get more than their share of compensation, while there are people in the east who think those in the west and outside of Christchurch itself are looking for any opportunity to make money off the situation (perceived inequity). Whether any of these ideas and opinions are valid or justified is an entirely different issue – the problem is that they exist in the first place, and as a result there’s been a lot of energy spent in creating and maintaining divisions rather than working together as a whole.

Sadly, this really just plays into the theory that any sort of community-based society is sustainable generally only in a small population where everyone knows each other and thus has a level of social responsibility that begins to fade when others in the network are merely a vague concept. Neighbourhoods and communities have often grown closer together, but on a metropolitan level, and further on a national level, the earthquake has left us frayed and divided just in time for an election.

Oakland vs Auckland

Okay, I can’t actually speak for Auckland, only Christchurch, but Christchurch doesn’t rhyme with any of the cities that have seen major police action recently.

Because that’s what I’m seeing a lot of on my Twitter feed, especially now I’ve added a few people that are active around, say, Melbourne. Massive police crackdowns in Denver, Oakland, Melbourne, and many other cities across the US and Australia, and likely plenty of other countries too. I just don’t have Twitter links to those ones. I do know that there are protest marches in the Middle East against violence against the occupiers in the US – a lot of people have been commenting on that.

In Melbourne they’re tweeting about two things at the moment – the first is the unaccounted for/stolen generators and personal property that was confiscated and destroyed, and the second is a speech about unity from a Torres Straight Islander, which I’d love to hear if it makes it to YouTube or anything. Apparently they’re also going to have a smoking ceremony. This is the sort of thing I’m big on, because what’s the point having this push back against the status quo and challenging the people with power if you’re just perpetuating the erasure and oppression of the original inhabitants of your country? Australian indigenous people in particular have been there for thousands of years, longer than Maori have if I recall my history correctly, and they’re considerably worse off – and uniquely trodden on by corporations in some ways due to the ridiculously low “rents” they’re paid for destructive oil & mining etc businesses to gut their land.

In the US it’s, of course, police brutality. Earlier they were apparently chanting “We are Scott Olsen” in Denver and Oakland, and I’ve seen dozens of pictures of rubber bullet wounds, protesters holding up casings and empty canisters of weapons that the police are reportedly “not using”, stand offs between police and civilians, one in which a police officer is aiming a gun at the person taking the photo. It’s tremendous, and incredibly brave of the occupiers to not back down, but also says something about the point we’ve reached in society that there are so many of them willing to not back down because they’re convinced that this is our best and perhaps last chance.

Here, though, it’s very different. I posted yesterday that I’d taken a sedative and gone home, so I didn’t attend the Robin Hood march. It was originally going to go down Riccarton Road, and I’d thought while at the City Mall opening that that was foolish – they should go into town. And they did, in the end. There were big crowds and police everywhere just for the opening itself, so I wondered how that would go, but when I was in today asking about it it seemed that it was pretty okay. People had been wary of them at first and the police laid down where they were definitely not allowed to go, but they followed those instructions and apparently after that was sweet.

I actually feel a little bit guilty, watching what’s happening in other cities. It’s like we’re getting off easy here. We aren’t being raided, we aren’t having our events met with lines of police in riot gear. Honestly this is the smartest response for a government, to basically just ignore us, because the crackdowns overseas have increased the numbers of protesters hugely. It’s been nearly two and a half weeks and as far as I know there’s only been one really negative interaction between us and the police. I mean, I’m grateful for that, because I don’t want to fight with the police, they’re not who we’re angry with, we don’t want anyone to get hurt, especially since we usually have children around the camp. But it’s incredibly frustrating having to just… watch, as people overseas are risking so much more than we are and knowing there’s nothing we can do to help except to keep talking about it and make sure that at least we are watching.